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On ads

James (Real name 'James' :))
Started 1 year ago  #         

Hiya Y'all,

Andrew and I have been giving Edublogs and revenue some serious thought of late.

In particular we've been trying to figure out how we can best support the growth and development of the site - both in numbers of users and in terms of functionality (we've got much bigger plans than the forums up our sleeves).

We're thinking about the costs of servers and of development and support staff.

As you know, we've got Edublogs Campus - but as you may not know, it's actually a really competitively priced product... for the amount of support, development and server space it occupies it doesn't really pay for more than itself.

So, we tried the 'Supporter' route and while we've had some great feedback from a lot of people on this and quite a few of you signed up it's not coming anywhere close to paying the hosting bills at the moment.

For example, our monthly hosting costs are around $3.5K, 'Supporter' is $25 (annually) and we've had about 30 - 40 people sign up for it.

I know that improving it still further will assist... but you can see where I'm getting at.

So, we're considering trying out some adsense, in the same way that wp.com do it.

What this would mean would be that:

- You would never see any ads
- Your students would never see any ads
- Your regular readers would never see any ads
- There wouldn't be any ads in feed readers
- Noone who has bookmarked you or types in your URL would see any ads
- No logged in Edublogs users would ever see any ads

In fact, very few people would see ads at all, but enough search engine visitors might in order to help us cover the bills and continue to grow and develop Edublogs.

And (and this makes us very different to wp.com) if you are an Edublogs Supporter there would never be any ads on your site ever.

And of course no Campus sites would have ads either.

I have to be honest, I was first very opposed to the concept (as you might have guessed!) but something I've figured out over the last few months of talking about it to people online and face to face is that not many people actually care.

I have never, for example, heard of a user saying that they don't want to use wp.com because of their ads, or that they'd choose Edublogs over wp.com based on their ad policy (that I mentioned above).

Also, our idea with this is that we try it out temporarily and if it doesn't work out or upsets people too much - we'll look into other approaches.

But at this time we'd love to hear your thoughts, so please, um, let us hear your thoughts below :)

Cheers, James

Answers from fellow members and edublogs support

drmike (Volunteer Support Guru)
Posted 1 year ago  #         

+1 for being up front about it from the beginning, unlike wp.com where it displayed there for months before they admitting to it. (Oh, I can't find the post on Wank's site but it's up there somewhere.)

Gotta admit that I'm surprised more folks haven't signed up. There were a lot of positive comments on that post on the main blog.

I have never, for example, heard of a user saying that they don't want to use wp.com because of their ads

There's a ton of them in the forums. I remember them. I also remember all those folks saying how wonderful wp.com is because it is advert free.

James (Real name 'James' :))
Posted 1 year ago  #         

Thanks for the feedback Dr M.

We really want to be clear that we're just testing this out and doing it for some good reasons (i.e. providing a better service).

And that there is an easy way to opt out of it.

I should clarify the wp.com thing to say that I meant in contrast to using Edublogs - i.e. it's never really been a successful pitch for us.

dogtrax (Member)
Posted 1 year ago  #         

I understand where you are coming from but I hate the idea of advertising.
Just another voice in the mix.
I wish more people would become supporters, etc.
Kevin

James (Real name 'James' :))
Posted 1 year ago  #         

Yep, so do I :)

To give you an idea though - we're looking at ads showing on less than 0.2% of page views and of course, for supporters, not at all.

dogtrax (Member)
Posted 1 year ago  #         

When might this happen?
I use a blog for kids (different from my own, where I am a supporter) and for a daily homework site. I have not contributed as a supporter for either of the kid- and family-eyeball sites but I don't want any ads there at all.
If it means digging down into my pocket and making those two sites supporter sites, I will do it. But, will you let us know one way or another?
I appreciate it
Kevin

James (Real name 'James' :))
Posted 1 year ago  #         

Kevin, the idea is that the family and children will never see any ads at all so hopefully that won't be necessary.

poulingail (Member)
Posted 1 year ago  #         

Okay, so it's been months since the last reply but I'll jump in. I am running my blogs as non-profit so I've struggled to keep the content low enough to avoid buying more space. That being said, I'm having fun with edublogs and have learned a lot. I plan to get more space (can it be shared by my 3 blogs?) and I think? that would make me a supporter wouldn't it. As for you guys doing what you need to keep this thing running as well as it is and working toward improvements, that will mean you need income. That means ads. There are some really ugly sites out there, covered in ads but those people are trying to make a killing. Keeping the ads away from students and other subscribers is super. Ads for everyone else works for me. Ads for sites like discovery education or other great education links would be ideal. Parents like that.

MsMichetti (Member)
Posted 1 year ago  #         

Hi James,
My blog (msmichetti.edublogs.org) is one that was "hit" with ads today, and it was rather embarrassing. I was showing, via digital projector, my blog to a group of students and educators, and navigated to my blog by entering the direct URL into Internet Explorer. The *first* thing to come up on the screen, both at the top of the page (beneath the header) and on the right (right sidebar) were Google Ads, many of which had nothing to do with education. A couple of clicks around and they were still there.

Luckily, after leaving the site and then returning to it, the ads "disappeared." But I am rather alarmed by the fact that they were there at all. $25 / year is not much to me in order to keep my blog ad-free. I will happily sign up.

However, I would have preferred a *direct* e-mail about this happening (ads suddenly appearing) rather than to have found out by accident like I did today, and then stumble across this forum post thanks to a sympathetic ear on Twitter.

drmike (Volunteer Support Guru)
Posted 1 year ago  #         

You know I wrote this long response and I'm not going to bother with it. I just want to hit two points.

- James was very much up front with it. You'll note that in my post up there. Another very large site which say remain nameless ran adverts for about 3-4 months without telling anyone, flat out lied about it when called on it, and caused a lot of problems for those trying to help out in their support forums until they finally admitted to running them. James, on the other hand, came into the forums, announced what he was doing, he made it a sticky and it sat there for about a month or two.

Do also note that most Terms of Service agreements that folks agree to when they sign up to a site state very specifically that it's up to the end users to keep up on all changes and all the provider has to do is to announce them in a standard method. Now James doesn't have that in his ToS but still I would think a quick scan of the support forums is called for on any site that one uses on a regular basis. This was a sticky for about a month or so.

- You didn't "opt in" into any mailing list when you signed up. That's borderline illegal here in the United States and would have caused many problems for him and this site. In addition to that, we already have problems with teaching reporting that their school systems and/ or email providers are blocking emails from edublogs. Knowing that the average "marked as spam" rate runs about 1%, and considering that no one opted into any such mail list when they signed up, think of all the headaches that would have caused everybody here.

Don't forget that he would be sending such mailings to children as well. That's borderline as well, especially since they didn't specifically opt in nor did James get any parental permission to make such mailings.

edit: Alright, three points. Think how long it would have taken to mail out such a notice. There are as I write this 220,000 users here at edublogs. Last time I was part of such a large mailing, it took three machines nearly 5 days to do so. James would have had to pull aside machines that normally run this site to do that.

bgilgoff (Member)
Posted 1 year ago  #         

Two of my students had adds show up as links to all sorts of their blogs when they were showing them at school yesterday. So, has the policy changed now. What was this about?

drmike (Volunteer Support Guru)
Posted 1 year ago  #         

Um, not sure what "change" you're asking about. Could you please give some details as to what is occurring? You may want to review what James says up there.

drmike (Volunteer Support Guru)
Posted 1 year ago  #         

Just to clarify a point on this since someone just left a rather distasteful comment on my own personal blog on this topic, most other sites run some sort of advertising as well. At the very least, as I note up above, James has been up front over this issue and announced that they are doing so.

But to answer the (I'll be polite here) commenter's argument, wp.com does indeed run adverts over on there and, has in fact not always told the truth about what they're running:

http://wank.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/define-broke/
http://wank.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/flash-aaaah/

To state that they do not is incorrect.

I'd like to remind folks that it took them upwards of six months before they admitted that they were doing so and questions of that nature was delete on sight in their support forums before that announcement.

ebsullivan (Member)
Posted 12 months ago  #         

What's up with the Ads. Thi sweekend was the second time I had ads appear in my blog,
This is not acceptable and the only posts I can find say this shouldn't be happening.

drmike (Volunteer Support Guru)
Posted 12 months ago  #         

What's up with the Ads.

Did you read the two threads that you posted to? I know I pointed you to them as well as the "How to Get Help" sticky but to be honest, it appears you haven't taken the time to review them. You may want to do so.

Thi sweekend was the second time I had ads appear in my blog,

As noted a link is always a good idea. I point you again to the sticky as well as the checklist.

This is not acceptable

Why? Do you do your job for free? Please kindly point at one major service that doesn't either require payment and/or run adverts. I believe I've asked that a couple of times and no ones come up with one yet.

the only posts I can find say this shouldn't be happening.

I do believe you mean the ones that I found for you and pointed you towards. Thanks for giving credit where credit is due.

ebsullivan (Member)
Posted 12 months ago  #         

I can't post a link because when I go back to the site, the ads are gone. I have no idea when they might appear again. I had already seen the posts you pointed me to. The threads are all filled with people who are upset about the ads from months ago, and conversations about the feeds that you are testing. I'm not stupid, just angry.

Here's a link for you that describes edublogs as free of charge and free of advertising, am I misreading the phrase? http://edublogs.org/2008/02/07/introducing-edublogs-supporter/

No, I don't do my job for free. I hope you don't either, AND YET... If you are going to have ads on edublogs, you need to be upfront about it and tell people when they sign up that their blogs might have half a dozen ads popping up at random., and ask people if they want to pay a subscription fee in order to keep it ad-free. Don't advertise your site as free if you don't mean it

dogtrax (Member)
Posted 12 months ago  #         

You know .. I followed the link (http://edublogs.org/2008/02/07/introducing-edublogs-supporter/) and I wonder if James should revamp that post. It is true that he has been upfront here, in the forums and in discussions, but if folks are seeing that old post from February (which says: <i>"As you know, Edublogs is free of charge and free of advertising")</i>, then of course, they wonder about it.

Kevin

lparren (Member)
Posted 12 months ago  #         

Thanks for the clarity about your need for raising funds. Sadly, though, my experience yesterday will probably prevent my schools from using Edublogs. A teacher is traveling to Syria and wants to blog with students and parents. We tested it yesterday and several of her words were turned into content links. A few were advertisements, but the word Arab actually took viewers to a chat room! Is it possible for you to have a policy about appropriate ads? We want parents to be able to check the blog from home without having to register or anything, but a chat room is over the top! For this one blog the $25 fee isn't a big problem, but I'm thinking about the long term success of Edublogs...although inaccurate the word on the street has been that it is a free site, safe for teachers and students to use. Maybe less obtrusive ads? Maybe getting the word out that it is an ALMOST free site?

sjctrainers (Member)
Posted 12 months ago  #         

Hmm, can we get a straight answer as to what is happening with the ads on blogs? I've just recently, within the last 3 weeks, created what I hoped was the first of many blogs on this site. I'm using it for a tech newsletter here within our College with hopes for showing faculty how to create blogs on the site. Ads had not appeared on my new pages since I created it.

I came back to work on the pages today and there was an ad image in the upper right corner of the main page and contextual links (blue and double underlined) on many words within the posts. As a few have stated in earlier posts, when I refreshed the blog page, the ads disappeared. Trying in another browser with a clean cache, I see the ads again "ContentLink™, powered by Kontera".

Can we get a straight answer: Are all our "free" blogs now randomly ad supported or not? I can't recommend this as a service to all our faculty if they are randomly going to have ads dropped into the pages, especially based on keywords picked up in the posts. I had previously been pushing faculty to use edublogs because it was ad free. We use PBWiki as our wiki solution primarily because there are no ads anywhere within your edu wiki pages.

I'll await a reply before continuing work on my new blog.

Thanks.
-Brian

James (Real name 'James' :))
Posted 12 months ago  #         

We'll have more information soon, included will be a facility that allows supporters to simply turn off ads on a bunch of blogs.

We're currently working on it - these things can take more than a little time!

However, we're not going to engage in an ongoing discussion while we work, if you're not happy with the service, may I suggest you consider either http://edublogs.org/campus, becoming an Edublogs Supporter or another blog platform.

I'd estimate that we'll have some news for you (and new features) within a week.

sjctrainers (Member)
Posted 12 months ago  #         

I had a long reply going in the text box here, and then I lost access to the edublogs site. For 10 minutes all pages displayed "can not be found".

So, many educators have already expressed their concerns and I don't feel like retyping my thoughts. Since it appears your immediate (the company) solution to the ad issue being forced on the blogs is: pay us to remove them ('blackmail' in my eyes considering we originally signed up for free non-ad supported blogs) or go elsewhere (the f-u approach), we will choose the later and will delete our blog and go elsewhere.

I will recommend to the faculty here at our College that we will use other blogging platforms. I can't push them to use edublogs if, at random, there will be blue double underlined links to totally irrelevant content. The links give the appearance that the blogger put them there and I would think it is that sneaky approach by the ad company that most people object to (and the horrible job your company has done at communicating this to everyone - an email to ALL blog admins would have been the best method of informing everyone).

If the ad policy is reconsidered or handled differently, I will reconsider.

-Brian

burlesot (Member)
Posted 11 months ago  #         

Wow,
I am shocked. I agree with Bryan that I will have to shut down my blog due to this. What a shame.
Todd

Ms. Fuller (Member)
Posted 11 months ago  #         

Just wondering why James posted above that no one that goes to the blog through a bookmark or by directly typing in the URL will see the ads when that is not the case. I went to my blog today using a bookmark on my computer and the ads were there. I really hope you all can get this issue straightened out because I know the vast majority of educators who are utilizing your service will be very disappointed if they can't get rid of the ads amd will utimately leave the site. The ads are totally unacceptable on sites that have been created specifically for student use. I don't have a problem with paying a subscription fee or becoming a member, however you don't seem to have made it very easy to do. I tried to become a supporter after researching this issue. I went to my upgrades tab and tried to subscribe...received a message that I didn't have enough credits for that service... click here to purchase credits. When I clicked here I simply received another message telling me I had 0 credits... there was no way to purchase any credits. Very confusing.... Please advise me as to how I can become a supporter in order to support your cause and also keep these ads off my blog. Thank you.

dogtrax (Member)
Posted 11 months ago  #         

If I remember correctly, you need to purchase credits with PayPal, then use those credits to move into the role of Supporter and I thought that the subscribe button brought you forward through the process. I remember thinking how easy it was (this is back in February).
Maybe there is a threaded discussion here in the forums that can help.
Or James can pop in and guide you.
Kevin

James (Real name 'James' :))
Posted 11 months ago  #         

Thanks for everyones patience with this, we'll have some more information - and some cool new functionality that should solve any teachers ad issues, this coming week (murphy willing).

dogtrax (Member)
Posted 11 months ago  #         

Thanks James.

Ms. Fuller (Member)
Posted 11 months ago  #         

Thanks to Dogtrax and James...looking forward to the new functionality and the ability to become a supporter.

lparren (Member)
Posted 11 months ago  #         

It is hard to know which forum to comment in. I just posted a new one about this issue, because the issue was spread around 3 forums. I really need to know what to do about our middle school blog that is still showing content links to really inappropriate stuff (Arab = chatroom/dating service). We became members the day I learned that was supposed to solve the problem (moving money in a day in our district is a HUGE accomplishment.) PLEASE tell us what to do! mtabesyriaproject.edublogs.org Thanks. We are looking at some potentially huge problems. I trusted you to take out the ads when we became members. HELP!

janzalone (Member)
Posted 11 months ago  #         

I haven't see any ads anywhere, but I do have a question after reading the above post...

Are the ads that will show up G rated??? I would assume that since the site is aimed at blogging in schools, that they would be school appropriate...but you know what happens when people assume things :)

I just want to prepare my teachers for what they will start seeing. Thanks and I am looking forward to the added benefits of being a supporter and have NO problems paying 15 more dollars to continue being a supporter when my current subscription expires!

mrstucke (Member)
Posted 11 months ago  #         

In-line adds in blog posts are a disgrace. They make it appear that I am personally linking and hence endorsing a product. To slip this in without even an email to blog owners warning them is very disappointing. I would be tempted to pay up to remove them but it seems ever so underhand the way they have been added. I guess it's time to look at the alternatives. Sad day as up until now I have been delighted with the service.

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